Curse

poasiods · May 23, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

I'm just curious after seeing so many posts regarding accounts being hacked.

Seeing we technically pay for our accounts (Adding keys we pay for via in-game store or buying the games from electronic stores), would it count as a theft in real life if someone hacks into someone else's account and steals their password?

If someone added the chapters and the expansion on an account via online store or when they were first released, a single account could cost well over $100.

I don't wish to discuss the possibilities of cyberpatrol or seriousness of these crimes or the police's lack of seriousness in dealing with crimes - I'm just curious if it would be considered as theft. In addition to the immense grief hackers are causing other players, I feel there would be a more significant weight to these activities. Unlike other games in the past (Diablo II for example) the games are incorporated into an account, so the account itself should be worth monetary value.

Are Guild Wars hackers prosecutable by law if someone manages to catch them? Can Anet take legal actions against one? Yeah, sounds a little ridiculous talking about suing someone over game, but I feel this might make sense seeing there are actual money involved.

Sorry about the repetitive questions and being a bit long for Q&A section but I felt this was technically a question.

Lawrence Chang · May 23, 2008, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Sure, its just that it wouldn't be worth it to make a big deal out of a video game.

thesupersaver · May 23, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

It would likely be normal theft since a single account isnt worth so much, but could carry jail time. Also, if massive numbers of accounts were stolen, it could spell serious trouble to the perpetrator.

majikmajikmajik · May 23, 2008, 05:24 AM // 05:24

technicly on all its worth, you dont "own" your account so its not stealing from you, its stealing from anet. also its unprovable that they stole your account, no trails...

GaaaaaH · May 23, 2008, 05:31 AM // 05:31

I would classify it as a financial loss from the victim and a gain by the theif, soi would call it a crime.

milan · May 23, 2008, 06:00 AM // 06:00

If they intended to keep the account they would show 'intent to permanently deprive' so it could be considered theft I guess.

If they were accessing the account to steal gold, materials etc and didn't try to change the password/email I guess it could be considered unlawful access to a computer system.

arsie · May 23, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Essentially it is the same as stealing a boxed game from a brick and mortar store. That is the parallel I draw about pirating mp3 and stealing a CD from a store.

I am not sure how the law enforcement agency does these things. If you stole something from a store and got caught by security or store workers, they will detain you until a police officer comes along. That is straight forward.

Whether Anet or whoever will give out IP addresses and other traces to the FBI so they'll bash down the hacker's door is another thing altogether.

So while I believe that the severity of the crime is the same as stealing a physical product, the will and means to enforce is vastly different.

KZaske · May 23, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

I feel that it is thieft. I wish the authorities would treat it that way.

Randvek · May 23, 2008, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Theft? Not exactly. Even straight-up software piracy isn't theft; it's copyright infringement. If I wanted to go after someone who "stole" my account, rather than saying they stole your account, it might be sounder legal ground to say that they took your rights under contract with ANet. I could see an argument made for conversion, perhaps, but there may be a theory of recovery based on IP. IP isn't my area, and it might be tricky to get any sort of recovery because there isn't really an inherent difference between accounts.

Please note that I am not your lawyer, and I'm definitely not an IP lawyer. Do not consider this legal advice.

poasiods · May 23, 2008, 07:09 AM // 07:09

I just remembered that lawsuit where some music company sued a teenage girl's family because the girl had downloaded some (Well, alot of) music illegally. I suppose similar thing could be applied except it would be more of a prosecution than a lawsuit.

Zebideedee · May 23, 2008, 08:06 AM // 08:06

From what I've heard, accounts don't get 'Hacked', most of the time it's greedy little gamers who go to [email protected]* , all we need is your account and pass, people stupid enought to fall for that are beyond my sympathy.

Quote:

Theft? Not exactly. Even straight-up software piracy isn't theft

Amen, like the judges sitting in piracy/theft cases, someone should go to their houses, and raid their TV cabinets, it's the age old story of the pot calling the kettle black

At the end of the day if you have paid cash for something and someone else uses (without your permission), then it is most definetlely theft. I've seen people on GW's selling accounts, how dumb must you be to fall for that, thats like buying a house in RL and the previous owner saying, "I'm gonna keep a copy of the keys, just incase!".

It's creepy

*Btw, this is just a fake address I made to emphasize my point, please don't click it :P

Kumu Honua · May 23, 2008, 10:23 AM // 10:23

Though if you want to get technical. Any "Hacker" could be prosecuted under cyber crimes and that's talking federal offenses across state lines.

Rushin Roulette · May 23, 2008, 11:04 AM // 11:04

no it is not theft, because no physical item changed hands and the client can get Anet to return the account with enough proof of purchase and ownership.

BUT. it is cyper piracy against anet if the accounts were really "hacked" from Anet or NCsoft servers. If it was because of own stupidity (no insult intended to the players who already lost stuff/Accounts) or because of a bad password from the player it will technically be considered fraud/Hacking.

Either way, all are considered crimes and can be bought to court for. Im sure Anet will prossecute the preson responsible and forward any information to their lawyers to sort through and collect for the Police to investigate the IP adresses.

capblye · May 23, 2008, 11:52 AM // 11:52

Is a bank account a physical entity? no ..its a series of numbers.
If you try to take money out of my account, is that just piracy or theft?
The Law is actually clear on theft:
[QUOTE]theft n. the generic term for all crimes in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes personal property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use (including potential sale). In many states, if the value of the property taken is low (for example, less than $500) the crime is "petty theft," but it is "grand theft" for larger amounts, designated misdemeanor, or felony, respectively. Theft is synonymous with "larceny." Although robbery (taking by force), burglary (taken by entering unlawfully), and embezzlement (stealing from an employer) are all commonly thought of as theft, they are distinguished by the means and methods used, and are separately designated as those types of crimes in criminal charges and statutory punishments. [QUOTE\]

poasiods · May 23, 2008, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Hope Arenanet nails one sometimes soon to discourage the others.

Commander Ryker · May 23, 2008, 12:26 PM // 12:26

This is more of a discussion than a question, so I'm moving to Riverside.

Darkobra · May 23, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Well, hacking or keylogging alone is against the law. People have been taken to court before for mass stealing accounts, especially if they're making real money out of it.

Akaraxle · May 23, 2008, 12:38 PM // 12:38

Stealing is a mortal sin, so you shall go to Hell.

TheRaven · May 23, 2008, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Stealing is a mortal sin, so you shall go to Hell.

No, not quite. But that's not a topic I wish to open.

I guess it's one thing to go to the police and say hey my account was hacked. The hacker put a trojan virus on my computer and I have proof that it was David X who lives at 123 Maple Avenue 2 blocks from my house. In that case, the police may pay David a visit and possibly prosecute. (possibly)

On the other hand, we have the real world situation where the hacker is most likely in a foreign country. What are the laws in that country? Does Germany have laws against hacking? How about China? Australia? It would be a major undertaking to try and prosecute a foreigner and generally not worth the time unless this hacker is also regularly hacking into Microsoft's corporate headquarters, the Pentagon, the Capital Building and the Stock Exchange.

FeroxC · May 23, 2008, 01:05 PM // 13:05

Account theft would be nothing to do with IP.

It is theft. I payed what ? (prophecies,factions,nightfall,eotn) £80 for an account with the abilitiy to play those games. Loosing that would not be joke.

Unfortutanatly this kind of theft is difficult to track(good trojans won't connect
directly to the hacker) so its not worthwhile trying to hunt them down.

Just because they get away with it doesn't mean its not seriouse.